Seriously. Raina has been going to day care since she was ten weeks old and the only other parent I am friends with is a woman I knew already, as she's another foreigner (and awesome).
Why is it? I just haven't been able to break in. I've had a friendly chat with one mother whom I ran into at the health centre one day when Raina was in for her monthly check up, but I've never seen her again. The mothers I do see regularly completely blank me. Really. None of my attempts even gain eye contact. One of the little boys opened the door for me once and his mother proceeded to give him the bollocking of a life time for opening the door for strangers. Fair enough, but I'm not a stranger. I see her little boy three days a week. We chat together and he plays with Raina all day long. I'm not a stranger to the mother either. I've seen her three times a week for a year. But she's never once acknowledged me. I must have committed some crime on the very first day that she hasn't forgotten.
I've had people let the door slam in my face, ignore me and then if they do talk, it's just to be patronising.For example:
Her: "Oh wat een bos haar heb je," (what a lot of hair you have) to Raina
Me: "Ja, sinds ze geboren was," (yeah, ever since she was born) with a big grin, thinking finally! I can engage with someone.
Her: "Tjsa. Dat weet ik," (like, yeah, whatever. I know that.) in a sarcastic way, not looking at me, then turning away.
It has taken me right back to the very early days when I first arrived in Holland. Except now I do know the language and I'm not afraid to communicate in it. These women seem to know all about me; where I come from, that we went on holiday to Australia for a month over Christmas, but I know zero about any of them.
One of the first things we learn in Inburgering is "Je moet altijd een hand geven," or, you must always offer to shake hands when you meet someone new. Not one parent has offered their hand to me and yes, of course I could be offering my own hand, but that's difficult when eye contact isn't even possible. I'm the first to admit that although I'm not great at making new friends and approaching new people, I'd love to be able to make friends with some of these parents. Especially as our children are the same age and we live in the same area and are potential play-date material, but I feel as though it's too late. The walls are already up. And fortified.
I'm hoping it can be different once Raina turns two. She'll be able to go to playgroup and parents are encouraged to hang around for a few minutes to interact. I'd love to meet new people who share the same interests. And by interests, I mean have kids. At the weekend we went to a party for a friend's 40th (oh lord. My friends are celebrating their 40ths. Shit.) and it was wonderful. He has a gorgeous daughter and their house is kid-proof! We could just let Raina enjoy herself instead of stressing about her knocking over expensive statues or smearing the tv with her greasy fingers. It was just about the best party I've ever been to. Purely for that reason. Well, the food was pretty fabulous too. But I'm hoping that the playgroup will be a fresh start. New people, new opportunities. Maybe an invitation for coffee if I'm lucky.
Ultimately my point is, I want to have friends who live close by and have kids and I had always thought that I would find those friends via the day care because at the very least, we'd have kids the same age in common. Instead I feel even more of an outsider.
How have you coped with making friends via kids and living in a foreign country? I always hear that we must try harder to integrate and interact with the locals, but I don't know how I can break through. Any advice for me?
And just because it's so cool, here's a photo of Raina getting creative with her dinner.
Why is it? I just haven't been able to break in. I've had a friendly chat with one mother whom I ran into at the health centre one day when Raina was in for her monthly check up, but I've never seen her again. The mothers I do see regularly completely blank me. Really. None of my attempts even gain eye contact. One of the little boys opened the door for me once and his mother proceeded to give him the bollocking of a life time for opening the door for strangers. Fair enough, but I'm not a stranger. I see her little boy three days a week. We chat together and he plays with Raina all day long. I'm not a stranger to the mother either. I've seen her three times a week for a year. But she's never once acknowledged me. I must have committed some crime on the very first day that she hasn't forgotten.
I've had people let the door slam in my face, ignore me and then if they do talk, it's just to be patronising.For example:
Her: "Oh wat een bos haar heb je," (what a lot of hair you have) to Raina
Me: "Ja, sinds ze geboren was," (yeah, ever since she was born) with a big grin, thinking finally! I can engage with someone.
Her: "Tjsa. Dat weet ik," (like, yeah, whatever. I know that.) in a sarcastic way, not looking at me, then turning away.
It has taken me right back to the very early days when I first arrived in Holland. Except now I do know the language and I'm not afraid to communicate in it. These women seem to know all about me; where I come from, that we went on holiday to Australia for a month over Christmas, but I know zero about any of them.
One of the first things we learn in Inburgering is "Je moet altijd een hand geven," or, you must always offer to shake hands when you meet someone new. Not one parent has offered their hand to me and yes, of course I could be offering my own hand, but that's difficult when eye contact isn't even possible. I'm the first to admit that although I'm not great at making new friends and approaching new people, I'd love to be able to make friends with some of these parents. Especially as our children are the same age and we live in the same area and are potential play-date material, but I feel as though it's too late. The walls are already up. And fortified.
I'm hoping it can be different once Raina turns two. She'll be able to go to playgroup and parents are encouraged to hang around for a few minutes to interact. I'd love to meet new people who share the same interests. And by interests, I mean have kids. At the weekend we went to a party for a friend's 40th (oh lord. My friends are celebrating their 40ths. Shit.) and it was wonderful. He has a gorgeous daughter and their house is kid-proof! We could just let Raina enjoy herself instead of stressing about her knocking over expensive statues or smearing the tv with her greasy fingers. It was just about the best party I've ever been to. Purely for that reason. Well, the food was pretty fabulous too. But I'm hoping that the playgroup will be a fresh start. New people, new opportunities. Maybe an invitation for coffee if I'm lucky.
Ultimately my point is, I want to have friends who live close by and have kids and I had always thought that I would find those friends via the day care because at the very least, we'd have kids the same age in common. Instead I feel even more of an outsider.
How have you coped with making friends via kids and living in a foreign country? I always hear that we must try harder to integrate and interact with the locals, but I don't know how I can break through. Any advice for me?
And just because it's so cool, here's a photo of Raina getting creative with her dinner.
Logging you in...
@AmandavMulligen · 611 weeks ago
kate · 611 weeks ago
I was hoping that when Finn went to school I would finally be in a circle of Dutch women. And whilst we all merrily chat at the gates while waiting - in 2 years I have had 0 coffee invitations. I haven;t issued any either it must be said. Although tell a lie - some new kids joiined the school last year and I am pretty friendly with their mum - we even went on a trip to Sligro together - so we must be really close ;)
But in general - no idea what more I would have to do to fit in. Luckily I also have good expat friends. It is so hard here to break through from nodding aquaintence to good friend.
Cheryl · 611 weeks ago
Janine · 611 weeks ago
Rasa · 611 weeks ago
I don't want to disappoint you, Nerissa, but not an age of kid is important. It's people around you. If they are not interested to talk they won't and not because you are not interesting person.
I come to school for kids for 1,5 years. I have few people to talk mainly because our kids like to play together but I don't have any single person who I can call and invite for a cup of coffee and a nice chat. Once we meet we talk, if don't meet we don't talk for a month.
What is also strange for me - it's very difficult to get eyes contact with people who you see 5 times per week 2 times per day and just say "hello". Kids never say hello as well even kids with who my boy plays.
I was learned to say hello to adults when I was still small. That we call politeness. Maybe here it's a good start?
Only I surprised that after so many years you live here and speak the language it's still difficult. I thought it will be better as I'm very new...
harmony1st 6p · 611 weeks ago
utelimacherriebold 1p · 611 weeks ago
nicoletta · 611 weeks ago
Hester · 611 weeks ago
Pabl · 611 weeks ago
Our kids a bit older than yours fresh into basischool. My dutch is still "heel slecht", my wife is more advanced. Myself, I don't make it too often to the school, but she does almost daily, and the attitudes she describes are exactly the same.
During the first year, we had no difficulty blaming it on our language skills (we had zero knowledge of), also on our kids language skills (they could also hardly play with any other kid, for the first half of the schooljaar, so no chance of getting invited anywhere). But in this 2nd year, it is obvious these are not enough to justify the "WALLS" !
Now, my wife can have a basic, limited vocabulary, chat, I mean, "how are you, nice weather, where have you been on WK, where to vacations? what a nice dress! etc...", and my kids can speak fairly good dutch now (considering only 2 years here ofcourse), and both have their first friends in class.
And what you get in return? Passing by you ( and I mean Inches from you) and not uttering a simple "..morning". Some people avoiding eye contact?
I've had my share of these attitudes also in the office, where the big majority are locals, not an international environment. I do not expect to be invited for coffee after work, or to parties and barbeques in their houses. Does not happen either in my home country. But, some people (i stress the "some" , like "a few" ), not replying to a good morning? or, for example, going by all desks asking something trivial to every (dutch speaker) in the room (example: "will you donate to that X cause?" ), but skipping you, just because they are TOO LAZY to say 4 words in english? this is gross!
And something more. When I describe these incidents to fellow countrypeople, they assume I'm referring only to true "autochtonen".(or more descriptive, to blond, tall, christian/atheist whites) displaying some kind of snobism to foreigners.
Well, NO. This is not the case. They too can be , but I am refering to all. Also most of the "allochtonen" (with the legal meaning of the term, anyone not having both parents born in NL), More than half of the parents of our school do not meet the "autochon" definition, but they still behave as polite, and gezellig as any true Nederlander :)
Angela · 607 weeks ago
I can only say I share your pain and I will tell you what I did. I have lived here in Eindhoven for 7 years. I speak Dutch okay, enough to have everyday conversations and can do more complicated Dutch convo if given time. When I first moved here I was very motivated to learn Dutch, but by the time I was middle through the courses I was getting less and less motivated. Why? I still could not get people to talk with me. Dutch people that is... They would talk at me about the language and how I should learn it and how difficult Dutch is to learn peppered with hints like hey read a Dutch newspaper. Oh and I can not forget all the negative comments I got about my country and few had even been there. I tried to ignore the ignorance of some and told myself as my Dutch improved so would my conversations and hopefully friends!
When my little girl started preschool I was excited, new Mamas! I quickly got disappointed. Not one person talked with me, and few even acknowledged my existence. I tried everything from coffee mornings to activiteis. I was there but few spoke to me except the occasional where are you from, and then the inevitable dialogue about the Dutch language. When my little one started Basis School not much changed.
The only Dutch Mama I am FRIENDS with is my neighbour and she has kids older than mine but is a true friend, however it took several years for her to even speak to me.
This year my daughter started group 2, and I decided I give up. I am no longer trying to integrate into Dutch friend zones. It has not happen and it will probably not ever happen. It is a waste of my energy. I enrolled my little one into an International school, in the Dutch dept. Sadly the Dutch are not so friendly here as well. So what I think because I met with a ton of other Mama who are from the USA, Canada, UK, India, Poland, Italy etc. all whom are very friendly. I joined the Parent committee and put my self out there and go only good friendly welcomes! How nice is that.
I am giving the Dutch dept. a chance, the teachers, the parents etc but if I see we do not fit, we will move to the international English dept. I expect for the teachers to treat me with respect, and eager to talk to me about my child. I expect the parents to be polite, and want to know who the parents are of the children they sit with. I expect my daughter to make friends and be invited to parties etc. This is normal and healthy in my view. If it does not meet my expectations... I leave. I am no longer going to just sit and and wonder what I am doing wrong. I refuse to let myself suffer through another 7 years. I no longer care what people think of my integration process. I enjoy speaking English and will not apologise for it. I speak Dutch as often as I can and that is good enough. I seek people who want to be friends and have contact and do not try to worry of those who do not. They have their life and I have mine so why should I worry? I also joined various clubs and organizations, one is Dutch but they are very international. So now I have friends and friendly people who not only appreciate me but like me and I am sure some will become more than just friendly but friends.
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